Severe issues

[eldritchsyntax]

I keep a huge 1000+ mod list but I OBSESSIVELY test every single one before i even think of making a proper playthrough.
I've done EVERY creation club mod with no issues (except on ghosts of the tribunal which hardlocks at the final quest for dagoth ur's mask, and beafarmer which doesn't let you hire a steward)

Then the only creation worthy of being called a dlc - comes out, and it's a DISASTER getting it to work across maybe.... 5 ish saves doing all the prerequisite quests (including having a fully unlocked shout in unrelenting force just in case the resonant shout tutorial requires one)

let's compare and contrast

-sledrig never spawns (not a modded interior cell btw. no quest maker. prid targeting + player.moveto does not function, confirming he physically does not exist when he is supposed to. fixed by spawning him in from his first base id in help command)

-helvana refuses to enter dustman's respite, enter it, or acknowledge when you have the book.

-bard instruments are invisible when equipped/cause A-posing when "attacking/have no sound effects, yet have a full model in inventory and when dropped

-resonant crystals do not show their effects in the active effects menu

-several modded items in additemmenu have a red x in place of a mesh, unsure if they were intended to be encountered at all. May not be a bug.

-(softlock) dialogue for duels of wit have only "..." responses with looping npc comebacks. duels MUST be avoided and refused to progress.

-(hardlock) helvana refuses to give dialogue after her rival leaves and all bards/the drunk and chef are spoken to in the winking skeever, never progressing the objective to find the cipher.

-mod consistently self-disables in in-game load order on an unmodded copy in the main menu after mod reload (legitimately purchased copy). even if launched from mod organizer. for some reason does not occur on modded games.

-probably far, far more bugs if this is how many i encountered in the first non vanilla mission.

mod list coming soon if this doesn't get ignored. LMK if you have any of the same bugs!
again I'm running BEES - a sort of esl/esp omni-compatible hybrid which in over 1000 mods has been fully compatible with all of them except for Simpler Knock.
The caveat is that creation club menu can't be opened on this version!
Normally i circumvent this by downloading on a seperate computer, moving to my main pc, zipping all the plugin files with a meta ini and loading the zip file as a mod. This has worked for literally every other creation. I have all 3 files from this creation.

 

[twolargepepperoni]

Hi there - firstly, I'm sorry to hear that you've had such a negative experience with your current playthrough. Please do share your plugins txt.file so that we can see what's going on. If you have papyrus logging enabled, providing these may offer further insight.

 

[Chef]

Also, one thing that would help is knowing which version of the game you are running.

 

[eldritchsyntax]

I mentioned in post but it occurs to me some ppl might not know what best of both world and bees is.
Best of both worlds is a 1.5.97.0 copy with forward compatibility with 1.6.1130.0 mods, and BEES is backported extended esl support which extends the forward compatibility to esl flagged plugins too.
A lot of authors get skeptical about that, but again: in over 1060 mods and near the plugin limit, i've only found one incompatible and i'm pretty sure it was author error.
and according to your current only unofficial patch maker, nothing in this creation should be incompatible with it.

 

[twolargepepperoni]

I mentioned in post but it occurs to me some ppl might not know what best of both world and bees is.
Best of both worlds is a 1.5.97.0 copy with forward compatibility with 1.6.1130.0 mods, and BEES is backported extended esl support which extends the forward compatibility to esl flagged plugins too.
A lot of authors get skeptical about that, but again: in over 1060 mods and near the plugin limit, i've only found one incompatible and i'm pretty sure it was author error.
and according to your current only unofficial patch maker, nothing in this creation should be incompatible with it.

We would definitely like to try and help you if we can, but to do so, we'll need some more information. The plugins list and papyrus logs, if you have these available, may allow us to see where the issues may be occurring. Ideally, from a save before spawning in NPCs via console commands.

 

[eldritchsyntax]

We would definitely like to try and help you if we can, but to do so, we'll need some more information. The plugins list and papyrus logs, if you have these available, may allow us to see where the issues may be occurring. Ideally, from a save before spawning in NPCs via console commands.

No worries. Just gimme somw time to get home today and have my hands empty to do that

 

[KillJoy]

I tested Nolvus with BEES and Bards college expanded but there were too many worldspaces overwritten and other conflicts so I had to give up on that one. It also uses the older engine so it will be a hard one

 

[eldritchsyntax]

ok so- full disclaimer- i don't know how much use the save game here will be since opening it would require having an OBSCENE number of mods to match my own. some of them with FOMOD specific steps, manual install dependencies like sse engine fixes, nemesis outputs, and a specific game version. I don't imagine you'll be able to actually open it. but you asked, so i'm trying to get it here. dunno how though. file is too big.

 

[eldritchsyntax]

i have a save right before helvana suggests talking to sledrig - which i think is when he's supposed to spawn?
this is also conveniently close to the first duel of wit with its soft and hardlock. I assume if you asked for it despite the massive load order you have some other tool to check it with. in which case i'm totally ignorant to those.
it won't accept the zip folder. any suggestions?

i can run getstage/setstage commands and the like for you if told to.

 

[twolargepepperoni]

Hi there - thanks for providing your plugins list!

And sorry, my comment wasn't very clear. What I meant is that, if you could load into your save from before using those console commands, with Sledrig not showing up and the various other problems you ran into - and then send over your papyrus log from that session - this may indicate if something is going wrong with your scripts.

You may have papyrus logging enabled, but in case you don't, here is how to do so.

How to enable Papyrus Logging

Before reporting your CTDs, make sure you enable Papyrus logging on your Skyrim. To do this, navigate to: My Documents / My Games / Skyrim and open Skyrim.ini Look for a li

www.nexusmods.com

 

[eldritchsyntax]

Hi there - thanks for providing your plugins list!

And sorry, my comment wasn't very clear. What I meant is that, if you could load into your save from before using those console commands, with Sledrig not showing up and the various other problems you ran into - and then send over your papyrus log from that session - this may indicate if something is going wrong with your scripts.

You may have papyrus logging enabled, but in case you don't, here is how to do so.

How to enable Papyrus Logging

Before reporting your CTDs, make sure you enable Papyrus logging on your Skyrim. To do this, navigate to: My Documents / My Games / Skyrim and open Skyrim.ini Look for a li

www.nexusmods.com

Oh ok that makes far more sense.

 

[eldritchsyntax]

In this i:talk to helvana at the moment sledrig gains dialogue and presumably spawns. i find he doesn't seem to exist and spawn him in. i go to the bard party and begin the first duel of wit where i am stuck in a loop of only "..." as a dialogue option, pressing it 5 times.

gimme a moment to get the second log

 

[eldritchsyntax]

in this log, i refuse the duel, talk to every guest with dialogue, try to talk to helvana and the quest guy with the cipher, wait a while, then test the 3 playable instruments

 

[eldritchsyntax]

sorry if the log is huge
it probably is

 

[Bobbyclue]

Hi there! Thanks for the added info. From what the papyrus logs say it looks like you're missing some base game scripts that were included with _ResourcePack.esl. We rely on these scripts heavily throughout BCE. Normally these should be included in _ResourcePack.bsa, do you have that file in your data folder/mod organizer equivalent?

 

[Bobbyclue]

Actually seems I mispoke. The scripts you are missing are included in Skyrim - Misc.bsa, not _ResourcePack.bsa. I'll assume you have a version of that bsa or you'd be missing quite a lot more. My guess is something went wrong with your downgrade procedure and you're still using a version of that bsa from an older version of the game. I say as much as you only seem to be missing scripts added in the 1.6.1130 update. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the best of both worlds patcher or what, but it may be worth updating again and rerunning that utility if you do indeed want to stay on 1.5.97. You may even want to manually back up the Skyrim - Misc.bsa from the latest game version and restore it once the patcher has done its job. I sounds like it may struggle with newer versions of that bsa.

 

[eldritchsyntax]

Actually seems I mispoke. The scripts you are missing are included in Skyrim - Misc.bsa, not _ResourcePack.bsa. I'll assume you have a version of that bsa or you'd be missing quite a lot more. My guess is something went wrong with your downgrade procedure and you're still using a version of that bsa from an older version of the game. I say as much as you only seem to be missing scripts added in the 1.6.1130 update. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the best of both worlds patcher or what, but it may be worth updating again and rerunning that utility if you do indeed want to stay on 1.5.97. You may even want to manually back up the Skyrim - Misc.bsa from the latest game version and restore it once the patcher has done its job. I sounds like it may struggle with newer versions of that bsa.

Thank you! That's very indepth and gives me a lot to work with. I'll report back if i see any progress.
If you had to guess what game version the bsa became viable for this creation, around when would it be?

 

[eldritchsyntax]

Actually seems I mispoke. The scripts you are missing are included in Skyrim - Misc.bsa, not _ResourcePack.bsa. I'll assume you have a version of that bsa or you'd be missing quite a lot more. My guess is something went wrong with your downgrade procedure and you're still using a version of that bsa from an older version of the game. I say as much as you only seem to be missing scripts added in the 1.6.1130 update. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the best of both worlds patcher or what, but it may be worth updating again and rerunning that utility if you do indeed want to stay on 1.5.97. You may even want to manually back up the Skyrim - Misc.bsa from the latest game version and restore it once the patcher has done its job. I sounds like it may struggle with newer versions of that bsa.

smart too. you're very correct. unofficial backpatcher is currently undergoing a rewrite. to quote the stickied post:

"
if you guys are having trouble with the patcher for 1.6.640 and have the time you can just use the steam console to redownload the files, worked for
me
download_depot 489830 489831 3660787314279169352
download_depot 489830 489832 2756691988703496654
download_depot 489830 489833 5291801952219815735

just throw those into the steam console one at a time and it'll download
them to your steamapps/common/content folder, replace ur skyrim stuff
with that and ur good to go
thanks bethesda lol"

this is likely the problem you picked up on. circumventing the unexplained crashes is currently best done by manually downgrading skyrim to the version the backpatcher was written for, and redownloading an older misc.bsa in the process. question is whether the modern misc.bsa would wreak havoc in this version of the game.

 

[Bobbyclue]

For BCE to work out of the box you'd want the BSA from version 1.6.1130 or 1.6.1170 (the current version). Bethesda added a bunch of resources for creations in the 1130 patch back in December.

 

[eldritchsyntax]

Lmao i tried it and the mod works flawlessly now.

Which is weird because according to bobbyclue, the misc bsa from 1130 is all that was needed, so maybe a new backpatching and backing up the misc bsa first is warranted.

Well thanks guys, i can even play instruments now. This has officially become a "does misc.bsa ruin backward compatibility" issue and no lobger an issue with the dlc.

Further help is appreciated but tou guys have done more than enough